raymond frantz

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Posts by raymond frantz

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  22

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  raymond frantz

  @Earnest

  So what if there was no mention for the first 200 years? The Church was under persecution for the first 200 years so Christian writing was sparse or lost for example Eusebius quotes or references numerous early Christian writings that are now lost, such as those of Hegesippus and Papias.He includes imperial edicts, letters, and church council documents which are now lost. Are all those documents in question now 2000 years later that some Jewish, Christian hating, so called historians want us to question everything about our faith? Many biographies or historical accounts were written hundreds of years after the events, we don't question them we accept them as history recorded, but when it comes to Christianity all bets are off🤣🤣🤣
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  3

  WATCHTOWER MAY 2025: THE MYSTERY OF THE HOLY ANGELS

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://youtu.be/xfk3wpsqoms?si=ep5uts_4uggces0w.

  so from the get go in study article 18 and the theme :"imitate the faithful angels" we read the following questionable statement in paragraph 1: "when jehovah drew you to the truth, he invited you into a diverse and loving family of worshippers, which includes millions of faithful angels.

  (dan.

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  raymond frantz

  @Fedupjw

  Good on you!
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  3

  WATCHTOWER MAY 2025: THE MYSTERY OF THE HOLY ANGELS

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://youtu.be/xfk3wpsqoms?si=ep5uts_4uggces0w.

  so from the get go in study article 18 and the theme :"imitate the faithful angels" we read the following questionable statement in paragraph 1: "when jehovah drew you to the truth, he invited you into a diverse and loving family of worshippers, which includes millions of faithful angels.

  (dan.

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  raymond frantz

  https://youtu.be/XFk3WPsqoms?si=ep5utS_4UggcES0w

  So from the get go in Study Article 18 and the theme :"Imitate the Faithful Angels" we read the following questionable statement in paragraph 1:
  "WHEN Jehovah drew you to the truth, he invited you into a diverse and loving family of worshippers, which includes millions of faithful angels. (Dan. 7:9, 10) As we think of angels, we may reflect on how different they are from us. For example, the angels have existed far longer than we have been alive. (Job 38:4, 7) They are more powerful than we are. And they are holy and righteous to a degree that we cannot reach as imperfect humans.​—Luke 9:26(=26For whoever becomes ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of man will be ashamed of that person when he comes in his glory and that of the Father and of the holy angels.)
  When the Watchtower tells you that angels are holier than humans, they’re expecting you to just nod along without thinking too much about it. After all, angels have been around longer, they’re more powerful, and they live in heaven. That must mean they’re on a whole different level of holiness than us flawed, imperfect humans, right? Well, not exactly. In fact, not at all. The Bible, the very book the Watchtower claims to follow, says something quite different. But, of course, they wouldn’t want you looking too closely at that.
  First off, let’s talk about who the Bible actually calls holy. Because if you ask the Watchtower, it sounds like holiness is an exclusive club, and humans—especially the ones not on the governing body—just don’t measure up. But when you open the Bible, you’ll see that it repeatedly calls faithful followers of Christ “holy ones.” Yes, actual human beings. Romans 1:7 says, *“to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones: May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”* Notice it doesn’t say, “To all those in Rome, who unfortunately will never be as holy as angels.” No, it calls them holy ones.
  And if that wasn’t enough, there’s 1 Corinthians 1:2: *“to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.”* Paul is talking about everyday Christians here, people just like you and me, and he’s calling them holy. If holiness was something reserved for angels, why would Paul use that term for humans—repeatedly?
  But maybe the Watchtower would argue that even if Christians are holy, they’re still on a lower level than angels. Surely angels deserve a little extra reverence, right? Not according to the angel in Revelation who completely shut down John when he tried to show him some special honor. Revelation 19:10 says, *“At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: ‘Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of bearing witness to Jesus. Worship God!’”*
  Imagine that. A mighty angel, appearing in a vision to the apostle John, and yet what does he say? *“I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers.”* No special titles, no claim to superior holiness, just a fellow worker in Jehovah’s purpose. And just in case John—or anyone else—didn’t get the point the first time, it happens again in Revelation 22:8-9: *“Well, I, John, was the one hearing and seeing these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had been showing me these things. But he tells me: ‘Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers the prophets and of those who are observing the words of this scroll. Worship God.’”*
  It doesn’t get clearer than that. If angels are rejecting special treatment, why does the Watchtower insist on giving it to them? If angels themselves say they are just fellow servants, why does the Watchtower elevate them above Christians? It’s almost like the Watchtower is more interested in creating a hierarchy where certain humans are always reminded of their inferiority.
  But here’s where it gets even more concerning. By teaching that angels are on a higher level of holiness, the Watchtower is setting up Jehovah’s Witnesses for serious deception. How? Because they’re conditioning them to trust angels over their own God-given ability to discern truth. And that is exactly what the apostle Paul warned against. In Galatians 1:8, he wrote, *“However, even if we or an angel out of heaven should declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.”*
  Now, why would Paul say that? Because he knew that not everything that looks divine actually is. Just because a message comes from an angel doesn’t mean it’s true. And yet, the Watchtower is priming Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept whatever an angel might tell them, as if angels are somehow immune to deception themselves. That’s dangerous thinking, especially when you consider that Satan himself *loves* to play dress-up as an angel of light.
  That’s not just speculation—it’s straight from the Bible. In 2 Corinthians 11:14, Paul warns, *“And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.”* Think about that. If Satan masquerades as an angel of light, and the Watchtower is teaching that angels are holier than humans and should be revered, what exactly is stopping a Jehovah’s Witness from falling for a false angelic message? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
  This is the real issue with the Watchtower’s claim. It’s not just incorrect—it’s dangerous. By elevating angels, they are priming Jehovah’s Witnesses to trust messages that *feel* holy rather than testing them against the Bible. They’re creating a spiritual vulnerability that Paul explicitly warned against. And they’re doing all of this while completely ignoring the fact that the Bible already calls faithful Christians “holy ones” and that even angels themselves reject any kind of superior status.
  So the next time someone tries to tell you that angels are holier than humans, ask them why Paul, John, and even the angels themselves disagree. Ask them why the Bible warns against blindly trusting angelic messages if angels are so beyond deception. Ask them why Christians are repeatedly called holy ones if they’re supposed to be on some lower level. And while you’re at it, ask them why the Watchtower always seems to have a vested interest in making sure regular Jehovah’s Witnesses feel just a little bit unworthy.
  Because at the end of the day, holiness isn’t about being an angel. It’s about being faithful to Jehovah. And according to the Bible, that’s something humans—yes, even imperfect ones—are fully capable of.
  
  
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  22

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  raymond frantz

  @Earnest

  I'd rather believe Eusebius who lived 200 years after the events rather than a Jewish "historian" who lived 2000 years later with bias who questions everything. By the way Eusebius is not the only one of that period to write about the Christian Exodus.

  ​In his work Panarion, Epiphanius of Salamis discusses the flight of early Christians from Jerusalem to Pella prior to the city's destruction. In section 29.7.7-8, he writes:​

  "This sect of the Nazoraeans is to be found in Beroea near Coele Syria, in the Decapolis near the region of Pella, and in Bashanitis at the place called Kokabe—meaning 'Star,' but 'Kochabe' in Hebrew. For it was from there that this sect began after the exodus from Jerusalem, when all the disciples went to live in Pella, because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to emigrate since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after moving to that place, as I said."
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  22

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  raymond frantz

  Here is the full text from Eusebius "Ecclesiastical History" book III ,chapter 5, paragraph 3, thank me later😀

  "But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men."
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  13

  HER HANDBAG TOLD HER TO STOP PREACHING

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://youtu.be/qzpj3kzgidi?si=x1xazpqmed1zq5h2.

  ah, yes, another shining example of the watchtower’s *unmatched* commitment to rational thought.

  forget logic, science, or even basic common sense—just blame that suspiciously cursed handbag for all your troubles!

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  raymond frantz

  https://youtu.be/qzPJ3kzGIdI?si=x1xAZpqmeD1Zq5H2

  Ah, yes, another shining example of the Watchtower’s *unmatched* commitment to rational thought. Forget logic, science, or even basic common sense—just blame that suspiciously cursed handbag for all your troubles!
  SO this story comes from the 1966 Watchtower 15th December, link attached bellow in the description and it comes from the good old times when superstition, demonic attacks and paranoia were the order of the day for Watchtower writer, there we read:
  "Another Christian woman kept a handbag given her by an aunt who was a fortune-teller. Using the handbag in the ministry, she experienced powerful thoughts of “Go home!” Bad thoughts rushed into her mind almost audibly, all of them anti-kingdom. She could not understand herself, as these negative thoughts entered her mind as if by telephone, so that she complained of “hearing herself think.” Only after getting rid of the handbag did she get relief."
  So clearly evil spirits have nothing better to do than lurk in old handbags and haunt unsuspecting Jehovah’s Witnesses in their door-to-door ministry.
  But let’s take a moment to admire the sheer brilliance of this story. A devout woman, supposedly under the divine protection of angels while out preaching, suddenly finds herself bombarded with anti-Kingdom thoughts—*but only when carrying a particular handbag.* So, what happened here? Were the angels on a lunch break? Or do demons actually have more influence over Jehovah’s Witnesses than their God does? If their ministry is *so* divinely sanctioned, why is it so easily disrupted by a piece of fabric gifted by an eccentric aunt?
  And let’s not ignore the truly concerning detail: the woman’s mental state. She’s experiencing intrusive, almost audible thoughts that she interprets as demonic attacks. Any reasonable person might suggest a psychological evaluation, but no, in true Watchtower fashion, the solution is just throw away the handbag! The real question is, why did the elders allow someone in such a state to participate in the ministry? Were they so desperate for recruits that they overlooked what could be serious mental distress? Or did they actually encourage paranoia as a recruitment tool?
  But wait, it gets even better when we read the previous paragraph:
  "A vital question to ask if one experiences trouble with the demons is: Have you accepted any gifts from relatives or persons who dabble in spiritism? Any kind of article from such a person can cause trouble. In some actual cases it has been a radio, a sewing machine, a pair of shoes, jewelry, a “good luck” charm, a bathrobe, a blanket, a book. One woman had her bed tipped up at night when she tried to sleep on a mattress given her by her Spiritualist mother. A young woman had a fever of 106 degrees when wearing a garment given her by a Spiritualist."

  So this wasnt just an isolated incident; apparently, demons have been wreaking havoc via sewing machines, radios, and—my personal favorite—a mattress. Imagine being an all-powerful evil entity with the ability to possess objects, and you decide the best course of action is to tip someone’s bed at night. It really makes you wonder: Are these demons just mischievous pranksters with a love for home decor disruptions?
  This story raises far more questions than it answers. If a simple handbag can drive a Witness to the brink of spiritual collapse, what does that say about the supposed strength of their faith? If angels are meant to protect them, why does it take a handbag purge to fix the problem? And most importantly, if demons are truly running interference on their ministry, wouldn’t that suggest the Watchtower’s message is a little too *threatening* to the forces of darkness? Or perhaps—dare we say it—their “ministry” is more connected to superstition and manipulation than divine guidance?
  At the end of the day, this story isn’t a cautionary tale about spiritual dangers—it’s a perfect example of how the Watchtower preys on fear and irrationality to keep its members in a constant state of paranoia. Because nothing strengthens faith like convincing people that their personal belongings might be demonically possessed
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  July 25 WT Study ....Moving Out?

  by mikeflood in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  third study article....as people moved out of jerusalem before the romans attacked on 70 ce...perhaps there are gonna be instructions for us today about us ...leaving possessions and houses...and moving to a different place.!!.

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  maybe that fits on 'receiving instructions that are not sound by a human pointof view' ??

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  raymond frantz

  Link?
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  February 2025 Letters to the Elders Announcements/Reminders

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have finally sat down and read this letter.

  i won't recreate the letter here, but if someone wants to share the link here, please do.. announcements and reminders.

  february 2025. for elders.

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  raymond frantz

  Another legal CYA “never be alone with a ministerial servant who is younger than 18 years of age. Use discernment (what is the WTS definition of that—legal CYA here) to avoid any conduct that could be misinterpreted by others (who) as morally questionable (any legal definitions of that that conduct might be?)

  That is insane, can you imagine the apostle Paul after having written about the list of qualifications for elders and ministerial servants finishing his letter with a clause...by the way don't leave these two alone if the ministerial servant is underage because they might have homosexual sex, or ask his mum of dad if an elder can be left alone with them...what a mess
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  Any reason for my mother and I not to go back, this is one of them.

  by Truth and Justice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi to all, i have been away from the organization since the 1980's and as it seems, i haven't missed a thing.

  i have seen a deterioration take place that is continually getting more dramatic than i have ever seen.

  the thumbing down or the minimizing of spiritual food is reason enough that people are starving for something good.

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  raymond frantz

  It reminds of the story of the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Romania that were cut off the organization for decades because of the communist regime, when freedom came and they opened the borders a large part of the brothers and sisters in Romania refused to join the organization because so much had changed doctrinaly in the main time and they thought the organization had gone aposrate
  
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  The King of the North as you Never Heard ity Explained Before

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/w32nome-k20?si=a8bhxh5tjrkomgzq.

  rather than seeing the king of the north as the final opponent of god’s people, i propose that daniel 11 points to a completely different figure.

  while the watchtower society focuses on the struggle between these two kings, they overlook a third entity mentioned in verse 40, but let’s ready this verse first from the new world translation.

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  raymond frantz

  Vidqun

  The structure of the verse, with two kings acting against a "him," suggests a separate entity. Now if this verse is all we had to go with it would be difficult to identify the HIM but thankfully we have the immediate few verses 36-39 that talk about this 3rd king as HE many times.Read verses 36 to 40 as one single verse and then it all makes sense.

  And the king shall do as HE wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify HIMSELF above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. HE shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37 HE shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. HE shall not pay attention to any other god, for HE shall magnify himself above all. 38 HE shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know HE shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39 HE shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge HIM HE shall load with honor. HE shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.[f]40 “At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attack[g] HIM, but the king of the north shall rush upon HIM like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And HE shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through.

  After reading these verses as one isn't it obvious that the HIM of verse 40 refers the king of 36-39?